The date October 11, 2021, marked a pivotal moment in Yuli Edelstein's political career. On that evening, just a few months into his party's rare opposition tenure, he announced his candidacy for the Likud leadership against Benjamin Netanyahu – a move considered unforgivable by many in the party. Indeed, in the primaries held a year later, he was relegated to the lower half of the Likud list, making it seem like his political exit was imminent. However, several developments have since changed the landscape.
Currently, as the chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, which has the power to shape the conscription law for ultra-Orthodox Jews, he wields significant power. In many ways, the future of the coalition and the government depends on him. In an interview with the political podcast "120 and One" hosted by Moran Azulay, he discusses the challenges in drafting the law, his relationship with Netanyahu, his conclusions from October 7, and the likelihood of running for Likud leadership again.
Regarding the activities of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on the draft law issue, Edelstein said: "I have no coalition considerations. I have said that I am not interested in dismantling the coalition or strengthening it. I want a law that provides real solutions for the IDF, which was was severely damaged in the war, and we need to expand the recruitment base."
When you hear the rabbis' calls not to enlist, is that something you consider, or do you ignore it?
"I don't ignore it because I live among my people. Unfortunately, many think this is the moment to fulfill dreams. On one hand, to pull toward 'we will die and not enlist' calls from Haredi extremists. On the other hand, that all ultra-Orthodox without exception should enlist, and no frameworks are needed, and equal service for women in all those units, and no special conditions are needed. I said in the committee several times, and I also say to you: I did not come to fulfill dreams but to legislate a practical draft law, and for that, everyone needs to be flexible."
Isn't it a bit naive of you to think that you can take one of the most explosive issues in Israeli society and say "now we are solving it"?
"I certainly believe it can happen, provided that, as I said, people give up their desire to fulfill a dream. I want broad agreements for one clear reason: when many people are willing to vote for something, then no one has a veto right. Not the ultra-Orthodox who will say 'no, we need improvements.' And not the opposition, Yesh Atid, National Unity, the Labor Party. Maybe they too will contribute something, stretch the rope a little more but don't snap it."
Without broad agreements you don't move forward?
"No, I didn't say that. I was looking for willingness. I thought there was also political wisdom among people. We have already started working on the draft law and, once the meetings are more substantive, people also speak more substantively. I hope we reach formulas that provide practical solutions for the IDF. The IDF also needs to tighten its operation. By the way, following the IDF's understanding that we are serious, I think they have also started to progress more seriously. Let's see if sending the orders yields anything."
There was great anger toward the IDF, toward their conduct in the committees, toward what was perceived as a lack of transparency. Can we say that this anger has subsided today?
"There has been a change in this matter. You are right that when we realized that there were media statements but no plan, there was a rare consensus in the committee between Otzma Yehudit and Religious Zionism and Yesh Atid and the Labor Party that the committee could not be dragged along, and you cannot just make various declarations without having a plan behind them."
In any case, Edelstein is not impressed by the steps taken so far, or in his words: "I don't see much feasibility so far that if 1,000 orders were sent, they would show up. Hell, let 500 show up. Because right now, everyone is on the defensive."
And what happens if we have already started the process but the ultra-Orthodox do not show up?
"Then I hope the realization kicks in for the committee members that they need to advance the law. That's exactly the point. We don't understand, who will be recruited? Are there sanctions? No sanctions? What is the status of those who will not be recruited?"
Are the ultra-Orthodox cooperating with you?
"What does it mean by cooperate? They don't know what to cooperate with yet. That is, there is still no draft around which we are talking. Principally, they are talking to me from all factions, but I still cannot determine who is cooperating. I hope the willingness will come when they understand that in a reality of just sending orders, hit and miss, we will not get far."
Recently, you said regarding the work on the law, 'No one will succeed in diverting me from my path – not with shouts, not with threats.' What did you mean?
"To all kinds of background noise. People have the impression that if they shout with a megaphone near the synagogue or brief journalists, or hint that my situation will be difficult in Likud if I cooperate..."
Who is doing this?
"I don't know, and I am not looking for it."
In Likud, they make political calculations. It is a party that goes through primaries, and for Knesset members and ministers, it is important to please the party members. Sometimes the line is very, very hawkish, and the feeling with you in recent years is that you left that behind when you thought you needed to run against Netanyahu. When you thought you needed to criticize, you did. And now you behave quite independently regarding the conscription law. Have you reached a point where most Knesset members in Likud are not?
"I don't want to talk about others. After being first and second in the primaries, there is also responsibility. I can't just sit on the bench. When I see things going wrong, and unfortunately, in some cases, I see things going wrong, then I must comment on it."
It takes a toll on you. In the last primaries, they tried to throw you off the list. It didn't work, but very significant attempts were made.
"Things evolve over time. When the primaries ended, and I reached the 15th place, they said: 'Well, here, everyone who raises their head gets their head cut off, Edelstein's career is over.'"
That's what it is. They try to cut off the head.
"Yes, just if you go over the headlines of the last month, then 'The fate of Likud is in Edelstein's hands,' 'The fate of the coalition is in Edelstein's hands,' 'The fate of the government is in Edelstein's hands.'"
Is that so? Is the switch in your hands today?
"If I were looking for political reckoning or political revenge, I would be in an excellent position. That is of no interest to me right now."
You have no desire for revenge? We are human beings. In the end, there are those who want to throw you out because you express your opinion.
"Many tried and weren't very successful. I am not looking for revenge."
The conscription law is rather explosive. There is a 50% chance that it will be a resounding success, and everyone will applaud you, and a 50% chance that it will blow up with a loud bang and lead to the Knesset's dissolution, and then you could find yourself blamed.
"If I now sit on my hands or do political tricks, then I will indeed be blamed for being given an opportunity, and I did nothing."
And if it leads to you paying the price and not entering the Knesset, you say, I go with the truth?
"Absolutely."
How is your relationship with Netanyahu? You were one of the few who had the courage to announce a run against him. Before you, Gideon Sa'ar did it and left Likud. You did it and stayed. Can you manage a good relationship today?
"Yes. Netanyahu has appeared quite a few times in the committee. I do not belong to that group of people who are concerned with what my relationship with Netanyahu is. I hope it concerns him less as well. We're working. We have held several personal meetings with him, including on security issues, certainly on the draft law. I think Netanyahu has gotten used to the reality that there are also independent people who have their own way."
He fired Gallant for an independent line, retracted, and now considers firing him again. Are you afraid of something like that?
"No. It's a bit more complicated to fire the chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. I am not afraid, and I don't think that's where the wind is blowing."
Are you coordinated with Gallant?
"We work with the Defense Minister all the time. It was very ridiculous that, initially, the headlines said 'Coordination between Edelstein and Gallant' to... I don't know what, to topple the government. In the last week, I saw headlines of 'Netanyahu and Edelstein's tricks to punish Gallant.' Everyone gets clever and provides interpretations. So, I say, we work with the Defense Minister. Unfortunately, there were also disagreements about the right way to pass the law. We are not coordinated in the sense of a political conspiracy, but also not in a quarrel."
Regarding the potential dissolution of the Knesset and holding elections in light of the October 7 massacre, war management, and the overall state of the country, Edelstein said: "I understand this perspective, but I'm not sure I'm ready to do such a thing as long as we don't have solutions for the hostages. It's more or less signing their death warrant. I'm not sure that during a time of uncertainty in the north and with tens of thousands of evacuees, we have the luxury of entering 5-6 months of complete stagnation in the country."
Maybe it would actually free Netanyahu from his shackles and the threats from Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, who say "no deal under any circumstances."
"In meetings with the families of the hostages, the question arises: 'Look us in the eyes and tell us: is Bibi delaying the deal?' Since I can't dismiss them, I say: I have researched and examined this issue from every possible angle, and I don't believe Netanyahu is delaying the deal."
Is this based on your investigation?
"Yes. I'm certainly not serving as his personal spokesperson to defend him."
If you feel that this is drifting into irrelevant, political or survivalist territories, will you stand up and say it?
"I will find a way to say it to him first, and if I am convinced that this is the case, I will say it to the public as well."
So we are not there.
"Not to my understanding."
Recently, Edelstein announced the establishment of a subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee to examine the investigations surrounding the failures of October 7. However, he clarified: "I am not investigating myself. We are not an investigative body. We want to ensure that these investigations are conducted correctly, at the right timing, in the right manner. The body that should investigate is a state commission of inquiry. I have said this a hundred times."
Led by a judge?
"It's always led by a judge. Who else, a grocer? A state commission of inquiry will be established. I am willing to compromise on the timing."
They say Netanyahu doesn't want a state commission of inquiry.
"That's fine, but I say otherwise. Even when I was approached regarding the protocols of the committees, especially my subcommittees in the Knesset, I said – talk to me when there is a state commission of inquiry. Until then, don't approach me."
Today, we are a divided and conflicted nation. Is there a way out of this?
"It won't be simple. I know the prescription, but it will be difficult. The prescription is that after the elections, whenever they are, the strong side will say 'pause.' Let's do things differently. Let's extend a hand and calm the spirits. This will happen under one condition: that the strong side is very strong. What does that mean? We have many challenges, and we haven't even touched a tenth of them. There are immediate military, security, political and international challenges from the UN, the ICC, the ICJ, and all the rest coming to destroy us, and we haven't even talked about the economy that has been hit. You want to ask me what my solution is? I'm not sure I will give you a convincing answer in every area. But I know the precondition: a very broad coalition, without extremes, based on 80 Knesset members if not more."
Meaning, from both sides? With Ben-Gvir and Mansour Abbas out?
"I'm not naming names right now. I'm just saying a very broad and stable coalition that doesn't try to rely on 62-63 members."
5 View gallery
Protesters for Netanyahu in front of the Capitol building
(Photo: JUSTIN SULLIVAN / GETTY IMAGES NORTH AMERICA / AFP)
Should Netanyahu lead Likud in the next elections?
"Whoever Likud chooses will lead Likud."
Will you run?
"Anything is possible. I don't know what the circumstances will be, when it will be, and around which issues it will revolve."
First published: 17:25, 07.25.24